<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Genesis 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dmitrybrant.com</link>
	<description>Not responsible for any minds blown.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 19:52:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neeraj</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-16845</link>
		<dc:creator>Neeraj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-16845</guid>
		<description>@Paul:
&quot;But I do not need to talk with “big names in science”.
This is a another fallacy argument, it’s called Appeal To Anonymous Authority.&quot;

No, but you want us (the &#039;Scientist&#039;) to do exactly this - &quot;appeal&quot; to the &quot;anonymous authority&quot; of (unknown, unproven) author(s) of the Bible.

Pardon my butting into this very interesting debate. In anticipation of Paul&#039;s query, let me qualify in my introduction itself that I&#039;m not even Christian - on the subject of God, I hold the same position as Milo.

Without intending to hijack this thread, but just to clarify by comparison, not all populaces were &#039;primitive&#039; in their thinking 2 or 3 millenia ago. Further to the east, in India, the Vedic &#039;religion&#039; had already &#039;discovered&#039; a lot of the facts which are considered &#039;modern common sense&#039; as referred to earlier in this discussion. I am deliberately not quoting any here to confirm my non-intention of hijacking this thread but if participants of this discussion wish, then I can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Paul:<br />
"But I do not need to talk with “big names in science”.<br />
This is a another fallacy argument, it’s called Appeal To Anonymous Authority."</p>
<p>No, but you want us (the 'Scientist') to do exactly this - "appeal" to the "anonymous authority" of (unknown, unproven) author(s) of the Bible.</p>
<p>Pardon my butting into this very interesting debate. In anticipation of Paul's query, let me qualify in my introduction itself that I'm not even Christian - on the subject of God, I hold the same position as Milo.</p>
<p>Without intending to hijack this thread, but just to clarify by comparison, not all populaces were 'primitive' in their thinking 2 or 3 millenia ago. Further to the east, in India, the Vedic 'religion' had already 'discovered' a lot of the facts which are considered 'modern common sense' as referred to earlier in this discussion. I am deliberately not quoting any here to confirm my non-intention of hijacking this thread but if participants of this discussion wish, then I can.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Milo</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12474</link>
		<dc:creator>Milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 06:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12474</guid>
		<description>I am not convinced that we can reason through this, and at some point I will give up. I am not trying to establish any new way of thinking nor am I presenting any novel information. I also have no desire to &quot;convert&quot; you or make you see my way. All of the things I have said thus far are the ideas and philosophies of those who were working in this field long before my grandparents were alive. There are large bodies of literature on the subject should you care to read any of it. If after doing so you still disagree, I suggest you take it up with the authors of the works themselves or other individuals within the scientific community that are far more qualified than myself.

Remember, appealing to authority is only fallacious if the party to which one appeals is not in fact an authority on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not convinced that we can reason through this, and at some point I will give up. I am not trying to establish any new way of thinking nor am I presenting any novel information. I also have no desire to "convert" you or make you see my way. All of the things I have said thus far are the ideas and philosophies of those who were working in this field long before my grandparents were alive. There are large bodies of literature on the subject should you care to read any of it. If after doing so you still disagree, I suggest you take it up with the authors of the works themselves or other individuals within the scientific community that are far more qualified than myself.</p>
<p>Remember, appealing to authority is only fallacious if the party to which one appeals is not in fact an authority on the subject.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12473</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 05:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12473</guid>
		<description>I will look at your websites and your information.
And give it real consideration.
But I do not need to talk with &quot;big names in science&quot;.
This is a another fallacy argument, it&#039;s called Appeal To Anonymous Authority.
It is the comments that you and I have made that we are discussing.
I think we can reason through this matter by ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will look at your websites and your information.<br />
And give it real consideration.<br />
But I do not need to talk with "big names in science".<br />
This is a another fallacy argument, it's called Appeal To Anonymous Authority.<br />
It is the comments that you and I have made that we are discussing.<br />
I think we can reason through this matter by ourselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Milo</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12471</link>
		<dc:creator>Milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12471</guid>
		<description>In addition to the above, I could put you in touch with various big names within the scientific community and you can discuss the matter with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to the above, I could put you in touch with various big names within the scientific community and you can discuss the matter with them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Milo</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12470</link>
		<dc:creator>Milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 04:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12470</guid>
		<description>Nobody can make you believe anything you do not wish to believe. However, in the interest of the dissemination of knowledge, I will attempt to guide you to the &quot;evidence&quot; you seem to think does not exist. I would start by suggesting that you read those college textbooks very carefully, specifically the parts that deal with the philosophy of science, not just the day-to-day practice of it. I would recommend a study of the works of Karl Popper, the Austrian philosopher and scientist who first put forth the idea of falsification back in the 1930&#039;s. Finally, I would suggest a trip to Google (try searching for &#039;irrefutable science&#039;) to see the many, many pages discussing this very subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody can make you believe anything you do not wish to believe. However, in the interest of the dissemination of knowledge, I will attempt to guide you to the "evidence" you seem to think does not exist. I would start by suggesting that you read those college textbooks very carefully, specifically the parts that deal with the philosophy of science, not just the day-to-day practice of it. I would recommend a study of the works of Karl Popper, the Austrian philosopher and scientist who first put forth the idea of falsification back in the 1930's. Finally, I would suggest a trip to Google (try searching for 'irrefutable science') to see the many, many pages discussing this very subject.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12469</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12469</guid>
		<description>oops, sorry for the duplication.
My bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops, sorry for the duplication.<br />
My bad.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12468</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12468</guid>
		<description>&quot;While the average person may find value in concepts such as truth or fact, science does not. Science deals only with possibility. An idea may be right and it may be wrong.&quot;

I find this to be an illogical statement and a contradiction of terms.
You are trying to give a new definition of science.
You are right in saying that the popular belief is that science is committal.
That’s because the  accepted definition of science is that it is a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.
Science is indeed dedicated to proving facts as truths.

&quot;a scientist will tend to shift toward the acceptance end but they will never completely accept it.&quot;

Your comment is to broad and not based on actual evidence. If a theory is not proven then yes, a scientist may shift towards acceptance, but once a theory is proven as fact it is accepted scientifically.

Grab any college level science text book and look inside. It is filled with accepted facts taught as science.

To place yourself outside of popular belief does not in fact make your statement a truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"While the average person may find value in concepts such as truth or fact, science does not. Science deals only with possibility. An idea may be right and it may be wrong."</p>
<p>I find this to be an illogical statement and a contradiction of terms.<br />
You are trying to give a new definition of science.<br />
You are right in saying that the popular belief is that science is committal.<br />
That’s because the  accepted definition of science is that it is a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.<br />
Science is indeed dedicated to proving facts as truths.</p>
<p>"a scientist will tend to shift toward the acceptance end but they will never completely accept it."</p>
<p>Your comment is to broad and not based on actual evidence. If a theory is not proven then yes, a scientist may shift towards acceptance, but once a theory is proven as fact it is accepted scientifically.</p>
<p>Grab any college level science text book and look inside. It is filled with accepted facts taught as science.</p>
<p>To place yourself outside of popular belief does not in fact make your statement a truth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12467</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12467</guid>
		<description>&quot;While the average person may find value in concepts such as truth or fact, science does not. Science deals only with possibility. An idea may be right and it may be wrong.&quot;

I find this to be an illogical statement and a contradiction of terms.
You are trying to give a new definition of science.
You are right in saying that the popular belief is that science is committal.
That’s because the  accepted definition of science is that it is a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.
Science is indeed dedicated to proving facts as truths.

&quot;a scientist will tend to shift toward the acceptance end but they will never completely accept it.&quot;

Your comment is to broad and not based on actual evidence. If a theory is not proven then yes, a scientist may shift towards acceptance, but once a theory is proven as fact it is accepted scientifically.

Grab any college level science text book and look inside. It is filled with accepted facts taught as science.

To place yourself outside of poplar belief does not in fact make your statement a truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"While the average person may find value in concepts such as truth or fact, science does not. Science deals only with possibility. An idea may be right and it may be wrong."</p>
<p>I find this to be an illogical statement and a contradiction of terms.<br />
You are trying to give a new definition of science.<br />
You are right in saying that the popular belief is that science is committal.<br />
That’s because the  accepted definition of science is that it is a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.<br />
Science is indeed dedicated to proving facts as truths.</p>
<p>"a scientist will tend to shift toward the acceptance end but they will never completely accept it."</p>
<p>Your comment is to broad and not based on actual evidence. If a theory is not proven then yes, a scientist may shift towards acceptance, but once a theory is proven as fact it is accepted scientifically.</p>
<p>Grab any college level science text book and look inside. It is filled with accepted facts taught as science.</p>
<p>To place yourself outside of poplar belief does not in fact make your statement a truth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Milo</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12454</link>
		<dc:creator>Milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 05:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12454</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not exactly sure why you think I&#039;ve taken no position. I&#039;m pretty sure I claimed the scientific position. I can only assume you do not understand what that means.

Contrary to popular belief, science is noncommittal. While the average person may find value in concepts such as truth or fact, science does not. Science deals only with possibility. An idea may be right and it may be wrong. Only two things are rejected: contradiction (inherent falsehood) and tautology (inherent truth).

This is entirely consistent with your acceptance/rejection scale but with the added restriction that the extremes of totality are limits (i.e. unattainable). As evidence in support of an idea becomes available, a scientist will tend to shift toward the acceptance end but they will never completely accept it. Likewise, as evidence in refutation of an idea becomes available, a scientist will tend to shift toward the rejection end but they will never completely reject it. In certain cases, a scientist will feel there is no credible evidence either way and will hold in the neutral position at the middle of the scale.

To put this all back into the context of Dmitry&#039;s article, my position is exactly as I said in my original comment. I reject the tautology that God did what he did for no reason other than because he is God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not exactly sure why you think I've taken no position. I'm pretty sure I claimed the scientific position. I can only assume you do not understand what that means.</p>
<p>Contrary to popular belief, science is noncommittal. While the average person may find value in concepts such as truth or fact, science does not. Science deals only with possibility. An idea may be right and it may be wrong. Only two things are rejected: contradiction (inherent falsehood) and tautology (inherent truth).</p>
<p>This is entirely consistent with your acceptance/rejection scale but with the added restriction that the extremes of totality are limits (i.e. unattainable). As evidence in support of an idea becomes available, a scientist will tend to shift toward the acceptance end but they will never completely accept it. Likewise, as evidence in refutation of an idea becomes available, a scientist will tend to shift toward the rejection end but they will never completely reject it. In certain cases, a scientist will feel there is no credible evidence either way and will hold in the neutral position at the middle of the scale.</p>
<p>To put this all back into the context of Dmitry's article, my position is exactly as I said in my original comment. I reject the tautology that God did what he did for no reason other than because he is God.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://dmitrybrant.com/nitpicking-genesis/genesis-2/comment-page-1#comment-12452</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dmitrybrant.com/?page_id=15#comment-12452</guid>
		<description>You are right in saying that you did not claim either position. You claim no position, this can only be defined as a non-intellectual commitment or non-action concerning any given concept. It&#039;s obvious to me what this particular sight is about and I&#039;m sure you are aware of the concepts being discussed here. No one when faced with a concept is unaffected by the concept. This is why the no position defense of the atheists or agnostic is not logical. It ignores the reality that people categorize theories or concepts anywhere in the range of total acceptance to total rejection. It is in our human nature to do this. We do not do nothing with information we receive; therefore we cannot remain unaffected by the concept once it is introduced to us, which is what you seem to be doing, and quite eloquently might I add.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right in saying that you did not claim either position. You claim no position, this can only be defined as a non-intellectual commitment or non-action concerning any given concept. It's obvious to me what this particular sight is about and I'm sure you are aware of the concepts being discussed here. No one when faced with a concept is unaffected by the concept. This is why the no position defense of the atheists or agnostic is not logical. It ignores the reality that people categorize theories or concepts anywhere in the range of total acceptance to total rejection. It is in our human nature to do this. We do not do nothing with information we receive; therefore we cannot remain unaffected by the concept once it is introduced to us, which is what you seem to be doing, and quite eloquently might I add.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

