Comments on: The open-mindedness of skeptics http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics Not responsible for any minds blown. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:12:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Reginald http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-16171 Reginald Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:06:08 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-16171 Kucaca seems to be referring to me. And I've only just seen your site for the first time, after Googling for exFAT. If that's not remarkable proof of something, I don't know what isn't. Anyway, (1) you seem to have rediscovered Occam's Razor. Often lost by the old and frequently hairy Father Time, but - so far, it seems - not gone forever; and (2) there is an operational aspect of the reality of unseen powers that is often overlooked by skeptics: the protests of the missionary being boiled in the apocryphal pot that the tribal god is not a real god (like hirs) are patently false: it is the tribal god that is having hir cooked and eaten (via the mediation of the local shaman). You can't get much more real than that. Thanks for the FAT and NTFS Walkers. Actually, Kucaca missed my gammy knee but nobody's perfect and I'm hoping your walkers help in that regard.... Kucaca seems to be referring to me. And I've only just seen your site for the first time, after Googling for exFAT. If that's not remarkable proof of something, I
don't know what isn't. Anyway, (1) you seem to have rediscovered Occam's Razor. Often lost by the old and frequently hairy Father Time, but - so far, it seems - not gone forever; and (2) there is an operational aspect of the reality of unseen powers that is often overlooked by skeptics: the protests of the missionary being boiled in the apocryphal pot that the tribal god is not a real god (like hirs) are patently false: it is the tribal god that is having hir cooked and eaten (via the mediation of the local shaman). You can't get much more real than that. Thanks for the FAT and NTFS Walkers. Actually, Kucaca missed my gammy knee but nobody's perfect and I'm hoping your walkers help in that regard....

]]> By: Marcos http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-16162 Marcos Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:36:52 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-16162 Sorry, I did not intend to offend you nor pretend I have a more elevated perception of the world or anything like it, as I say I'm sorry I gave that impression. I only wanted to stress that there is no evidence to look for other than experience, each one of us has to experience life in his own way. You seem to be tuned in to nature in a certain way and you say: ''the universe is breathtakingly beautiful as it is,'' I agree 100%, we just have to fine tune our perception of that beauty to see the ''underlying structure'' of it all, that's all, although I think it is not an easy thing to attain, I am far from there myself but have had glimpses of it in the past. These are not imaginary things, I have in fact experienced other realities without leaving mine, like seeing a huge UFO in front of me (500 meters away), plus telepathic communications with other people (although not being aware of it until after). You may believe or not what I say, I can't prove it to you, not scientifically, it just happened. And many other people have experienced similar things that cannot be proved, it's their own experience (like when we have a high emotional and moving experience, it is personal and cannot be described adequately, not even in poetry). When I said ''The only way to experience that other world is with real LOVE for ALL and the UNIVERSE that surrounds us, you cannot approach it with the ego, you will fail.'' I did not intend to make it personal, it is what all masters like Buddha, Christ, Zoroaster, etc, recommended. So, I am sorry also that I cannot respond to your question as to ''demonstrate something.'' This same question you ask has been considered in the past and has been dismissed by those masters (please don't take anything personal, it is only intended to illustrate). They say to those who do not believe: open up your hearts and you shall see. Some questions will never be answered, and if you think this is all a vague mess, it is your own right to think so. But as I said before, if you dig deeper into reality (like using a spiritual microscope) you shall find the answers by experience itself, I personally don't think there is any other way. If you want a recipe : To open up our hearts we must love all, loving all will bring a new perception of the world we live in, and we will begin to see the ''underlying structure'' that sustains it all. How do we love all? We must begin forcing it a little, then it will come alone. Doing charity work, being vigilant with our own thoughts about ourselves and others, we must not judge to not be judged. Being vigilant with our own actions, what we do. The way we live is the way we are seen by others, our own life is our message. If we sow righteousness we will reap righteousness, all that plus a happy attitude towards life and every being on Earth and beyond will give us a higher perception of our reality and we shall see beyond (again, please do not take this as a sermon for you, it is a recipe that is not mine, it belongs to those masters I mentioned before and I am only trying to stress this point.) Hope I was clearer now. Best regards. Sorry, I did not intend to offend you nor pretend I have a more elevated perception of the world or anything like it, as I say I'm sorry I gave that impression. I only wanted to stress that there is no evidence to look for other than experience, each one of us has to experience life in his own way. You seem to be tuned in to nature in a certain way and you say: ''the universe is breathtakingly beautiful as it is,'' I agree 100%, we just have to fine tune our perception of that beauty to see the ''underlying structure'' of it all, that's all, although I think it is not an easy thing to attain, I am far from there myself but have had glimpses of it in the past. These are not imaginary things, I have in fact experienced other realities without leaving mine, like seeing a huge UFO in front of me (500 meters away), plus telepathic communications with other people (although not being aware of it until after). You may believe or not what I say, I can't prove it to you, not scientifically, it just happened. And many other people have experienced similar things that cannot be proved, it's their own experience (like when we have a high emotional and moving experience, it is personal and cannot be described adequately, not even in poetry). When I said ''The only way to experience that other world is with real LOVE for ALL and the UNIVERSE that surrounds us, you cannot approach it with the ego, you will fail.'' I did not intend to make it personal, it is what all masters like Buddha, Christ, Zoroaster, etc, recommended. So, I am sorry also that I cannot respond to your question as to ''demonstrate something.'' This same question you ask has been considered in the past and has been dismissed by those masters (please don't take anything personal, it is only intended to illustrate). They say to those who do not believe: open up your hearts and you shall see. Some questions will never be answered, and if you think this is all a vague mess, it is your own right to think so. But as I said before, if you dig deeper into reality (like using a spiritual microscope) you shall find the answers by experience itself, I personally don't think there is any other way. If you want a recipe : To open up our hearts we must love all, loving all will bring a new perception of the world we live in, and we will begin to see the ''underlying structure'' that sustains it all. How do we love all? We must begin forcing it a little, then it will come alone. Doing charity work, being vigilant with our own thoughts about ourselves and others, we must not judge to not be judged. Being vigilant with our own actions, what we do. The way we live is the way we are seen by others, our own life is our message. If we sow righteousness we will reap righteousness, all that plus a happy attitude towards life and every being on Earth and beyond will give us a higher perception of our reality and we shall see beyond (again, please do not take this as a sermon for you, it is a recipe that is not mine, it belongs to those masters I mentioned before and I am only trying to stress this point.) Hope I was clearer now. Best regards.

]]> By: db http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-16161 db Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:26:50 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-16161 Marcos, You sure know how to pile on those pseudo-spiritual platitudes! Regarding "creating our own reality," you should check out one of my previous posts on <a href="http://dmitrybrant.com/2008/09/02/you-create-your-own-reality" rel="nofollow">creating our own reality</a>, and respond to my arguments there. Your comment contains a lot of vague catch-phrases like "feel new things" and "your heart will open" and "turning point" and "infinite possibilities"... but as a whole, your comment is almost devoid of <em>meaning</em>. What do you <em>mean</em> when you say that I should "dig deeper" or "open my heart"? What should I do, physically, that I'm not doing, in your opinion? Like I said in my post, all I'm asking is that you <em>demonstrate</em> something; show me or tell me something that you've discovered about this "other world" you speak of. You're also making a lot of assumptions and judgments about me. For instance, you're assuming that my life is somehow less fulfilling than yours because I don't see things the way you do. Believe it or not, I find great pleasure in observing the natural world, and admiring the beauty that lies in every corner of it. The natural world is the only place where I <em>can</em> find beauty, since I don't believe in any gods or fairies. The difference between you and me is that I don't waste my time burdening my perception of the world with imaginary attributes that you "think" you understand. The universe is breathtakingly beautiful <em>as it is</em>! We don't need to poison our understanding of it with primitive superstitious baggage left over from the Bronze age. Marcos,
You sure know how to pile on those pseudo-spiritual platitudes! Regarding "creating our own reality," you should check out one of my previous posts on creating our own reality, and respond to my arguments there.

Your comment contains a lot of vague catch-phrases like "feel new things" and "your heart will open" and "turning point" and "infinite possibilities"... but as a whole, your comment is almost devoid of meaning. What do you mean when you say that I should "dig deeper" or "open my heart"? What should I do, physically, that I'm not doing, in your opinion? Like I said in my post, all I'm asking is that you demonstrate something; show me or tell me something that you've discovered about this "other world" you speak of.

You're also making a lot of assumptions and judgments about me. For instance, you're assuming that my life is somehow less fulfilling than yours because I don't see things the way you do. Believe it or not, I find great pleasure in observing the natural world, and admiring the beauty that lies in every corner of it. The natural world is the only place where I can find beauty, since I don't believe in any gods or fairies.

The difference between you and me is that I don't waste my time burdening my perception of the world with imaginary attributes that you "think" you understand. The universe is breathtakingly beautiful as it is! We don't need to poison our understanding of it with primitive superstitious baggage left over from the Bronze age.

]]> By: Marcos http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-16160 Marcos Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:27:40 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-16160 Hi, interesting article. I know what you mean by wanting proof of something that is at first sight ''imaginary'' as you say. But, in fact if you allow yourself to dig a little deeper, the world that surrounds us, in fact is imaginary, just go to the molecular level and the whole ''reality'' experience blows away. So is what we see and feel real in the end? You may say that there are different ''realities,'' macro and micro, to any level you may want (see the movie: Powers of Ten). My conclusion is that we make our own reality and the experiences we have in that reality obey to our own expectations and beliefs, because even if I could prove to you that 2+2 is not 4, according to your experience it is. So, I cannot convince you outside your own sphere of experience, or your own world for that matter. The only way to prove anything that is out of this world is experiencing that ''new'' world. And the only way for that to happen is shoving off all our beliefs and prejudices and be open to any new experience, and ask for them to happen (as we ask for just anything in this world). In time, and after a great effort, you will begin to experience this other world or other reality. It is not easy mind you, you must be willing to accept and feel new things. The only way to experience that other world is with real LOVE for ALL and the UNIVERSE that surrounds us, you cannot approach it with the ego, you will fail. The great men of the past who gave us their wisdom all have said that to know yourself and for that matter God (or any other name you'd like to give him) is by personal experience in the field of LOVE (for thy neighbor with no conditions whatsoever). Practice charity with all people (rich or poor, colored or white, etc) and you shall SEE, because your heart will open to a new world. Just keep your mind open, watch carefully, stop thinking in terms of your past experiences, stop thinking while you stroll along the street, be aware of what is going on, be alert, you will be amazed at what you will see, nothing extraordinary in terms of paranormal and that kind of stuff, ordinary things of life that will enrich you like watching a bed of flowers and admiring their beauty, their sent, the wonderful sky and the stars and maybe some amazing thought will cross your mind which could be a turning point for your life or a confirmation of it, who knows, there are infinite possibilities, we just have to be prepared to listen, and what is more important is that you will KNOW it is TRUE. But don't believe me, go and experience it yourself. Best regards. Hi, interesting article. I know what you mean by wanting proof of something that is at first sight ''imaginary'' as you say. But, in fact if you allow yourself to dig a little deeper, the world that surrounds us, in fact is imaginary, just go to the molecular level and the whole ''reality'' experience blows away. So is what we see and feel real in the end? You may say that there are different ''realities,'' macro and micro, to any level you may want (see the movie: Powers of Ten). My conclusion is that we make our own reality and the experiences we have in that reality obey to our own expectations and beliefs, because even if I could prove to you that 2+2 is not 4, according to your experience it is. So, I cannot convince you outside your own sphere of experience, or your own world for that matter. The only way to prove anything that is out of this world is experiencing that ''new'' world. And the only way for that to happen is shoving off all our beliefs and prejudices and be open to any new experience, and ask for them to happen (as we ask for just anything in this world). In time, and after a great effort, you will begin to experience this other world or other reality. It is not easy mind you, you must be willing to accept and feel new things. The only way to experience that other world is with real LOVE for ALL and the UNIVERSE that surrounds us, you cannot approach it with the ego, you will fail. The great men of the past who gave us their wisdom all have said that to know yourself and for that matter God (or any other name you'd like to give him) is by personal experience in the field of LOVE (for thy neighbor with no conditions whatsoever). Practice charity with all people (rich or poor, colored or white, etc) and you shall SEE, because your heart will open to a new world. Just keep your mind open, watch carefully, stop thinking in terms of your past experiences, stop thinking while you stroll along the street, be aware of what is going on, be alert, you will be amazed at what you will see, nothing extraordinary in terms of paranormal and that kind of stuff, ordinary things of life that will enrich you like watching a bed of flowers and admiring their beauty, their sent, the wonderful sky and the stars and maybe some amazing thought will cross your mind which could be a turning point for your life or a confirmation of it, who knows, there are infinite possibilities, we just have to be prepared to listen, and what is more important is that you will KNOW it is TRUE. But don't believe me, go and experience it yourself. Best regards.

]]> By: Angelina http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-15675 Angelina Thu, 28 May 2009 12:55:32 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-15675 Good read Dmitry!! Good read Dmitry!!

]]> By: Kamilion http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-15597 Kamilion Tue, 26 May 2009 01:12:14 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-15597 * Void where prohibited. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. The Church of the SubGenius is well known as a satirical comedy group that delivers stinging rants against a variety of social ills. See here for details: http://www.modemac.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/What_the_hell_is_going_on_here * Void where prohibited. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. The Church of the SubGenius is well known as a satirical comedy group that delivers stinging rants against a variety of social ills. See here for details:
http://www.modemac.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/What_the_hell_is_going_on_here

]]> By: Kamilion http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-15596 Kamilion Tue, 26 May 2009 00:49:08 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-15596 Just landed here on a crawl for Win7 Repair (Crashed and ate some driver signature files) that took me past a lockergnome article that popped me through majorgeeks to drop here for DiskDigger. Oh, what a wonderful thing the internet is. I have to say, after carefully reading this article, I agree with you fully. This is the same fashion I attempt to follow myself, Very Probably imaginary, or Very Probably real. Too many people I see are concerned with black and white that they miss the beautiful 64bit color range in between. I vastly enjoy your streetlight analogy as well. It is a quite succinct introspection of the deepthought process of folks that refute perfectly reasonable explanations of how the real world actually works. I picked up a screwdriver at a young age and I've been taking the world apart ever since, grasping only for understanding. I have personally experienced the “they can’t all be wrong, can they?” effect more times than I can likely recall. It's quite maddening when you consider that 98% of these people have an average human brain that can grasp nearly any complex concept or procedure in less than 50 hours of applied effort, yet they are unwilling to exert it. My 10 year old niece was able to put together a reasonably complex desktop machine from parts with no experience and the instructions "Just be careful, everything only goes in one way." -- the only thing I had to correct was pointing out she forgot the little red paper washers on the motherboard. It took her less than an hour. Keep up the slack! Never let the pinks get you down! Lease your soul to Bob for safe keeping on X-Day, July 5th! -- Reverend Kami, SubGenii Apropos Just landed here on a crawl for Win7 Repair (Crashed and ate some driver signature files) that took me past a lockergnome article that popped me through majorgeeks to drop here for DiskDigger.
Oh, what a wonderful thing the internet is.
I have to say, after carefully reading this article, I agree with you fully.
This is the same fashion I attempt to follow myself, Very Probably imaginary, or Very Probably real.
Too many people I see are concerned with black and white that they miss the beautiful 64bit color range in between.

I vastly enjoy your streetlight analogy as well. It is a quite succinct introspection of the deepthought process of folks that refute perfectly reasonable explanations of how the real world actually works. I picked up a screwdriver at a young age and I've been taking the world apart ever since, grasping only for understanding.
I have personally experienced the “they can’t all be wrong, can they?” effect more times than I can likely recall. It's quite maddening when you consider that 98% of these people have an average human brain that can grasp nearly any complex concept or procedure in less than 50 hours of applied effort, yet they are unwilling to exert it. My 10 year old niece was able to put together a reasonably complex desktop machine from parts with no experience and the instructions "Just be careful, everything only goes in one way." -- the only thing I had to correct was pointing out she forgot the little red paper washers on the motherboard. It took her less than an hour.

Keep up the slack! Never let the pinks get you down! Lease your soul to Bob for safe keeping on X-Day, July 5th!

-- Reverend Kami, SubGenii Apropos

]]> By: db http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-15280 db Fri, 15 May 2009 17:33:33 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-15280 @Kucaca, Are you referring to me? I have no issues with either of my ears or my abdomen (left or right side). Your comment actually helps prove <em>my point</em>. Can you see why? @Kucaca,

Are you referring to me? I have no issues with either of my ears or my abdomen (left or right side). Your comment actually helps prove my point. Can you see why?

]]> By: Kucaca http://dmitrybrant.com/2009/05/06/the-open-mindedness-of-skeptics/comment-page-1#comment-15279 Kucaca Fri, 15 May 2009 17:23:14 +0000 http://dmitrybrant.com/?p=464#comment-15279 I can't give you evidence,but many my patience will. And I'm not good in your language,so I can't give you explain in letter,just try to give you sight that something always walk beyond our conciusness ,like I'know that you have problem with your left ear. And Have problem (pain or feel heavy) in your left bottom abdoment. That maybe your key to go throught your mind door. Don't use your think.just feel,you'll know. I can't give you evidence,but many my patience will. And I'm not good in your language,so I can't give you explain in letter,just try to give you sight that something always walk beyond our conciusness ,like I'know that you have problem with your left ear. And Have problem (pain or feel heavy) in your left bottom abdoment.
That maybe your key to go throught your mind door. Don't use your think.just feel,you'll know.

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